Setting up free wifi for 500-1000 meter range.

[Wes Phibbs]

Setting up free wifi for 500-1000 meter range.
Theres a farmacia here in the Dominican Republic (Samana) that wants to setup free wifi for 500-1000 meters range. He wants it to be open access, but when you get onto it it will pop up one advertisment page for his place. then u can surf the net for free while out and about with your laptop or at a resourant etc. The town is made from moslty cement buildings 1 - 2 stories high. *His is 2 stories* Its near the ocean (his is less then 500 meters to the ocean i think.) He tried to do wifi now but just with a low end router and its not working well. I guess im wondering about equipment and how to setup that popup page/when u try surf the web. Or if theres a place that already explains all this. i have limitied access to the internet so it makes research a bit more difficult. So im interensted
in ideas, (cheaper is better, but it needs to work.)
I did get on the chat online and they mentioned doing a 4 or so directional AP's to a central router (also with wireless on the router i guess to pickup the local dead spot) Someone thought 4 corners of the building for the AP's instead of trying to make a tower. The problem i see is that it seems hard to find directional antenas that have a wide degree spread, i guess i would need 90deg on each at least.
Any ideas or neat/new equipment or specific parts would be appretiated. We can order stuff in if need be, or try local/what we can get. Im not sure on his price range or anything. Ill just work with what i get from feedback.
Ive never taken on a public wifi project before, and never these ranges either, so any help is help.

wes
wesphibbs-***@public.gmane.org

[Russell Senior]

Wes> Setting up free wifi for 500-1000 meter range. Theres a farmacia
Wes> here in the Dominican Republic (Samana) that wants to setup free
Wes> wifi for 500-1000 meters range. He wants it to be open access,
Wes> but when you get onto it it will pop up one advertisment page for
Wes> his place. then u can surf the net for free while out and about
Wes> with your laptop or at a resourant etc. The town is made from
Wes> moslty cement buildings 1 - 2 stories high. *His is 2 stories*
Wes> Its near the ocean (his is less then 500 meters to the ocean i
Wes> think.) He tried to do wifi now but just with a low end router
Wes> and its not working well. I guess im wondering about equipment
Wes> and how to setup that popup page/when u try surf the web. Or if
Wes> theres a place that already explains all this. i have limitied
Wes> access to the internet so it makes research a bit more
Wes> difficult. So im interensted in ideas, (cheaper is better, but it
Wes> needs to work.) I did get on the chat online and they mentioned
Wes> doing a 4 or so directional AP's to a central router (also with
Wes> wireless on the router i guess to pickup the local dead spot)
Wes> Someone thought 4 corners of the building for the AP's instead of
Wes> trying to make a tower. The problem i see is that it seems hard
Wes> to find directional antenas that have a wide degree spread, i
Wes> guess i would need 90deg on each at least. Any ideas or neat/new
Wes> equipment or specific parts would be appretiated. We can order
Wes> stuff in if need be, or try local/what we can get. Im not sure on
Wes> his price range or anything. Ill just work with what i get from
Wes> feedback. Ive never taken on a public wifi project before, and
Wes> never these ranges either, so any help is help.

You "ad" problem can be solved with a thing called a "captive portal",
software that basically diverts an initial web request to a splash
page. There are lots of captive portals. Personal Telco uses
NoCatAuth, NoCatSplash and WifiDog in various places. One thing to
bear in mind, each user's mac address (or BSSID) needs to be visible
for a captive portal to work. That means your network needs to be
"bridged". This can present difficulties if you are using more than
one device. Two solutions are to use WDS to connect multiple access
points or run a captive portal on each access point.

Outdoors without too many obstructions, an access point is going to be
able to provide service for ordinary laptops in the space within a few
hundred feet, maybe 100 meters. To cover an area the size you are
talking about is going to need numerous devices.
--
Russell Senior, Secretary
russell-LS+HbC+***@public.gmane.org

[Caleb Phillips]

Post by Russell Senior
Wes> Setting up free wifi for 500-1000 meter range. Theres a farmacia
Wes> here in the Dominican Republic (Samana) that wants to setup free
Wes> wifi for 500-1000 meters range. The town is made from
Wes> moslty cement buildings 1 - 2 stories high. *His is 2 stories*
Wes> The problem i see is that it seems hard
Wes> to find directional antenas that have a wide degree spread, i
Wes> guess i would need 90deg on each at least.

9 dBi 120-degree sector:
http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=2659&cat=263&page=1

9.5 dBi 90-degree sector:
http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=2657&cat=263&page=1

Both are around $55.

Looking around, there are lots of sector antennas in the $100+ range.
Personally, I've never paid more than $60 for an antenna and I'm
unconvinced those $160 sectors are worth it. Maybe someone else will
disagree though...

Post by Russell Senior
Outdoors without too many obstructions, an access point is going to be
able to provide service for ordinary laptops in the space within a few
hundred feet, maybe 100 meters. To cover an area the size you are
talking about is going to need numerous devices.

I tend to agree with Russell. However, don't be overwhelmed -- you can
start by deploying gear on the one rooftop and then walk around with a
laptop and see how far away it is usable. Then, pick another rooftop to
extend the network in the direction of interest. If at some point the
cost outweighs the benefit, you can stop deploying.

Those cement buildings are going to pose a problem. We've found that
indoor repeaters ($50-100) can be helpful in this case.

When you start deployment, take pictures!

--
Caleb Phillips

[Tyler Booth]

Post by Caleb Phillips

Post by Russell Senior
Wes> Setting up free wifi for 500-1000 meter range. Theres a
farmacia
Wes> here in the Dominican Republic (Samana) that wants to setup free
Wes> wifi for 500-1000 meters range. The town is made from
Wes> moslty cement buildings 1 - 2 stories high. *His is 2 stories*
Wes> The problem i see is that it seems hard
Wes> to find directional antenas that have a wide degree spread, i
Wes> guess i would need 90deg on each at least.

http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=2659&cat=263&page=1
http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=2657&cat=263&page=1
Both are around $55.
Looking around, there are lots of sector antennas in the $100+ range.
Personally, I've never paid more than $60 for an antenna and I'm
unconvinced those $160 sectors are worth it. Maybe someone else will
disagree though...

Actually, a $1000 90deg andrews sector will far outperform any $50
90deg sector.
It's the VSWR matching (tuning), front to back ratio, cross
polarization rejection, etc numbers
that make all the difference. When you're dealing with antennas (just
like everything else in the
world) you get what you pay for.

Post by Caleb Phillips

Post by Russell Senior
Outdoors without too many obstructions, an access point is going to be
able to provide service for ordinary laptops in the space within a few
hundred feet, maybe 100 meters. To cover an area the size you are
talking about is going to need numerous devices.

I tend to agree with Russell. However, don't be overwhelmed -- you can
start by deploying gear on the one rooftop and then walk around with a
laptop and see how far away it is usable. Then, pick another rooftop to
extend the network in the direction of interest. If at some point the
cost outweighs the benefit, you can stop deploying.
Those cement buildings are going to pose a problem. We've found that
indoor repeaters ($50-100) can be helpful in this case.
When you start deployment, take pictures!

This is a case where merakis would probably be a great solution. Start
with 4 outdoor units on the roof, then
hand out some indoor or outdoor meraki repeaters to neighbors with the
incentive of free internet access.
Meraki has built in captive portal advertising support.

Post by Caleb Phillips
--
Caleb Phillips
--
The Personal Telco Project - http://www.personaltelco.net/
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[Irving Popovetsky]

Agreed with Tyler and Caleb. Just one note:

I've had better luck using 3x 90 degree sectors instead of 4.
Remember, sectors have HUGE side lobes, a 90 degree sector can
typically get you 120 or more horizontal degrees of good coverage. 3
is also the magic number in 2.4Ghz if you want to avoid channel overlap.

-Irving

Post by Tyler Booth

Post by Caleb Phillips

Post by Russell Senior
Wes> Setting up free wifi for 500-1000 meter range. Theres a farmacia
Wes> here in the Dominican Republic (Samana) that wants to setup free
Wes> wifi for 500-1000 meters range. The town is made from
Wes> moslty cement buildings 1 - 2 stories high. *His is 2 stories*
Wes> The problem i see is that it seems hard
Wes> to find directional antenas that have a wide degree spread, i
Wes> guess i would need 90deg on each at least.

http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=2659&cat=263&page=1
http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=2657&cat=263&page=1
Both are around $55.
Looking around, there are lots of sector antennas in the $100+ range.
Personally, I've never paid more than $60 for an antenna and I'm
unconvinced those $160 sectors are worth it. Maybe someone else will
disagree though...

Actually, a $1000 90deg andrews sector will far outperform any $50
90deg sector.
It's the VSWR matching (tuning), front to back ratio, cross
polarization rejection, etc numbers
that make all the difference. When you're dealing with antennas (just
like everything else in the
world) you get what you pay for.

Post by Caleb Phillips

Post by Russell Senior
Outdoors without too many obstructions, an access point is going to be
able to provide service for ordinary laptops in the space within a few
hundred feet, maybe 100 meters. To cover an area the size you are
talking about is going to need numerous devices.

I tend to agree with Russell. However, don't be overwhelmed -- you can
start by deploying gear on the one rooftop and then walk around with a
laptop and see how far away it is usable. Then, pick another rooftop to
extend the network in the direction of interest. If at some point the
cost outweighs the benefit, you can stop deploying.
Those cement buildings are going to pose a problem. We've found that
indoor repeaters ($50-100) can be helpful in this case.
When you start deployment, take pictures!

This is a case where merakis would probably be a great solution. Start
with 4 outdoor units on the roof, then
hand out some indoor or outdoor meraki repeaters to neighbors with the
incentive of free internet access.
Meraki has built in captive portal advertising support.

Post by Caleb Phillips
--
Caleb Phillips
--
The Personal Telco Project - http://www.personaltelco.net/
Donate to PTP: http://www.personaltelco.net/donate
Un/Subscribe: http://lists.personaltelco.net/mailman/listinfo/
general/
Archives: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.wireless.portland.general/
Etiquette: http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/MailingListEtiquette

--
-Irving Popovetsky Principal Consultant
ProStructure Consulting http://www.prostructure.com
Network and Security Consulting phone: [phone] x201
"Crafting Connectivity that Matters"